Episode Four - Jay Baer (Co-Author of Talk Triggers, Hall of Fame Speaker and Content marketing expert.

Saul Colt: [00:01:45] So Jay had one of the things I love about you know your ideas and stuff. You've talked about I've always thought this was really interesting and I have used it a couple times. Can you explain you know your philosophy behind content creation as a TV schedule.


Jay Baer: [00:02:01] I think the biggest challenge that most marketers have today is random acts of content people have good ideas I got that be fun and then they do it once on a Thursday and they maybe do it a second time four weeks later Tuesday morning and they're changing channels and changing modalities and there's too much noise out there. People can't can't keep track of what you're working on. So our philosophy convince and convert is that every brand should operate like a TV network and you have three types of shows we actually call them shows you have binge worthy shows which are a series of content executions not unlike this podcast that you allow your audience to digest over and over and over you always do it you know you're going to do it it's the tent pole of your content calendar. Then you have special programming which might be your content version of I don't know the Grammys or something. It's a bigger thing that you do maybe a quarterly basis or six times a year and then you have your regularly scheduled program which is the sort of regular you know 830 on ABC is whatever a mediocre sitcom it's your version of that content. Hopefully with less mediocrity it's that it's the flotsam and jetsam right it's the daily blog post it's that it's the Instagram whatever the things that that sort of fill out your content calendar it's the down in the pillow. But you need all three of those types of programs and when you put them all on one content calendar and you say we know we have to have access to all these three different types of shows. It really unlocks the tumblers right. It makes everything you like oh I get it. Now it makes sense it just a lot easier for for at least our clients to understand what they need to bring to the table on a regular basis.


Saul Colt: [00:03:37] That's awesome. So hey you just released your newest book. Talk triggers and I got to tell you it's exciting. I got my copy in the mail yesterday. I thumb through it through it furiously last night. Between you and me I'm in the book five times one. There's a picture of me and the other four times are kind of like NDA in the background client work so you have to have it.


Saul Colt: [00:04:02] Well that's the thing that's why it's so great to talk to you. Because as somebody who has been a not only a proponent but a propellant of great word of mouth. It's an absolute honor and a privilege to talk to you about this. I mean you know the world didn't need Daniel Lemin my co-author and I to say that word of mouth is important. I think what we provide that maybe we haven't had out there is a system for doing word of mouth on purpose where too many people as you well know try to do word of mouth on accident. That doesn't usually work.


Saul Colt: [00:04:30] Yes that's actually my question. Why do brands and not everybody because obviously you've got a full book of amazing examples of companies who were very thoughtful about word of mouth. But why do some brands just leave word of mouth to chance.


Jay Baer: [00:04:45] There's a number of reasons for it. I think one we don't fully understand the power of word of mouth I think. Anecdotally we do. Nobody is going to say not word of mouth as on important like nobody says that. But I don't think we fully understand how important it is that the data in the book indicates that depending on the type of business you are. Word of mouth influences between 50 and 91 percent of all sales between 50 and 91 percent of all sales. That's a fairly significant part of your business end and however it is less easy to measure in some cases than other forms of customer acquisition and it feels a little bit like witchcraft like alchemy. And I think the biggest mistake that brands make and we talked about this at length in the book is that we oftentimes believe that competency creates conversation that if you just run a good business and I'm throwing up my metaphorical air quotes. Now if you just run a good business that people will talk about you. But will they. And if so what will they say. Because I don't know everybody listening to the show but I probably know some of you. I do know this though. Nobody listening has ever said let me tell you about this perfectly adequate experience I just had. We are physiologically wired as human beings to discuss things that are different and ignore things that are average but to purposefully do something different to create word of mouth requires you to break out of the modern business sensibility of follow the leader of best practices of of who can we mimic an ape in our category. We all operate on a low risk trajectory most of the time and that's what robs us of word of mouth.


Saul Colt: [00:06:25] So you know I've read every word of mouth book out there and you know it's something and you know I mentioned I just got the book last night. I've been traveling so it's been sitting in my mailbox. What I read was bang on so you know back in one of the things that I I really appreciated about the book and maybe the third of it I haven't finished it completely nullifies a statement one of the things I preach all the time is that word of mouth has to start in the real world and drive people to social and I think a lot of times people 100 percent do it backwards and you know in some of your examples were just incredible. What did the couple of your favorite you know case studies in the book.


Jay Baer: [00:07:08] Let me just touch on that comment real quick. We interviewed and sort of it's in the book who wrote that the book Word of Mouth Marketing and he makes a really interesting point that word of mouth as a business discipline was doing pretty well. And then all of a sudden social media came along and wrongfully convinced many people that social media equals word of mouth. And it's not. Social media is just a convenient mechanism for the stories that you give your customers to tell one another. Social media isn't word of mouth social media is a way that word of mouth travels and I hope that one of our contributions in this book is to sort of move that focus back where it belongs. A number of people have asked me all because I've written books and do a lot of work in social and content marketing and those kind of things. Jay how come you're writing a book about word of mouth that seems that seems really analog and off line for your career and I know you've got it backwards. Like everything that we do online has to come from a wellspring of an actual story that resonates with people some sort of differentiator that they notice. So I don't find it to be weird at all and I'm really glad that you picked up on that because I think it's really important and I hope I certainly wouldn't suggest that our book alone can do that. But I hope we we enter a new era. Word of mouth renaissance if you will. I think that's it would be good for all of us wasn't it isn't.


Saul Colt: [00:08:31] And I asked you for some your favorite case I come back. But isn't that kind of interesting that you had to write this book at all and what I mean by his word. He is the first you know marketing word of mouth and prostitution were the thing that lasted the test of time. And you know somebody painted on a cave wall it was the only marketing we had. Right. Exactly. And it's still a ways. It's it's it's it's an afterthought and you know it's it's you know you think of all the shiny tools out there and word of mouth is a discipline as opposed to a tool and maybe that's the thing that's going against it because you know one of the things I talk about all the time is you know it's like I and I loved the book so you know please read into what I'm saying and take it as a compliment. Not the other way but a lot of the books that I read that are you know contemporary books they're way too tool focused and I zone out on them because yeah you know if you're only learning who's sweet you know maybe who's sweet is still relevant in 20 years. Maybe it isn't. You know how many people became Pinterest experts knew as bags of interest is still alive and kicking but you know there was Friendster experts in there. You know all these people that you know.


Jay Baer: [00:09:43] Hey there's books on the shelf about Google Plus which just closed this week. So you know you never know. I mean what I like to say is a word of mouth is the most important thing in business for which nobody has an actual strategy. And I think that's really really true. Right. You've got a desk full of strategies but the one strategy you don't have. You're the exception that proves the rule saul. But the one strategy that fundamentally nobody has is a word of mouth strategy. We just were so laissez faire about something that's so important and it's it's a bit of a conundrum to me which is one of the reasons why we wrote the book I'm like I don't understand why nobody pays attention to this considering the fact that I think it's safe to say that the best way to grow any business regardless of size or circumstance is for the customers to grow it for you like isn't that really what we're all trying to do here. I mean you obviously are familiar with this with this saying and it's not entirely true but it's true enough that advertising is a tax on the unremarkable and there is certainly a kernel of truth there. And so I feel like if you don't have to advertise that many the case studies in the book are of organizations that really don't advertise very much because they're talk trigger serves that role for them. Isn't that what we're all shooting for. But sometimes it feels like maybe we're not.


Saul Colt: [00:10:55] No I agree 100 percent. So yes. Here's one of the things that stood out for me and this is just me internalizing you know what you've written. You know one of the themes of the book is to be different. And you know in an earlier episode of this podcast I talked with Andy Nulman and Andy if you're not aware of any he's the co-founder of the Just For Laughs Festival you know arguably the world's largest comedian the Stand Up Comedy Festival in the world and you know now he's you know he's he's moved on from just for laughs he did it for 30 years and he's got his hands on a bunch of different things but Andy's is very similar to yourself very similar to me. He's one of these guys who just loves to be different and stand out. And you know do sort of crazy things in and get him and I have gone in and pitch brands together and he doesn't stuff individually. I just haven't visually. And you know one of the the thought tracks of our conversation was how hard it is to actually pitch crazy or different to brands. You know it's like it should be that like a complete no no brainer it's like let's take some small calculated risk. Let's see. You know if there's any magic in this thing. But the man you know it's like you know like I've done a bunch of crazy things for brands. But it's you know it's it's the the amount of brands that are willing to make a leap of faith at least maybe it's just me and maybe I'm just griping are getting smaller and smaller. Sure the ones that are into it are into it and they'll do amazing stuff. And when you find someone you've got to hold onto them forever and be good to them and never let go of them. But but like why. Why is this still and I sort of I'm probably asking the same question thing. But but. So let me change the question how do you pitches into companies.


Jay Baer: [00:12:46] So here's how we do it in our organization to convince and convert also how we talked about doing it in the book we contextualize her talk trigger and let me just to find that real quick talk trigger in our world is a strategic operational decision. That compels word of mouth. So the way we like to explain it is that a trigger isn't marketing. It's an operational choice that produces a marketing advantage. It's not a contest it's not a coupon it's not a campaign it's not an initiative it is something that you do different every day not something that you say different temporarily. And when you contextualize it that way and you say oh this isn't a marketing stunt this isn't surprise and delight. This isn't a lottery ticket. This is something that we're going to do every day in the operations of our business and so who really has to be in charge of this. Yeah yeah. Marketings got a seat at the table. But sales and customer service and ops are all doing this together. It makes it so much less scary. And leaders like oh so we just change the way we deliver the service. We're not doing some kind of rent an elephant a walk to the conference room. Like yeah. Like oh it has been one of the greatest somewhat accidental discoveries in the last ten years of my career. Is is explaining a word of mouth through the lens of Operation disorder through the lens of marketing. It really helps in my estimation.


Saul Colt: [00:14:05] I just wrote down walk an elephant through a conference thing and do that and then they go.


Jay Baer: [00:14:09] That's the new one. There you go. That's my gift to you and your listeners.


Saul Colt: [00:14:13] I guess it's paid for itself.


Jay Baer: [00:14:16] So good to have you got a whole team.


Saul Colt: [00:14:19] That's right. See you. That's really interesting. So like you know word of mouth has to be you know for lack of a better term a lifestyle brand and not. Yes. Yes.


Jay Baer: [00:14:30] One or two departments in the book we talk about the four requirements of a trigger are the four ingredients we call them the four R's because you see they all start with the letter R and the four ingredients are. It has to be remarkable which I think stands to reason has to be worthy of conversation. It has to be repeatable which is the point that we're making right now in our world that talk triggered is something that is offered to every customer every day every time. It's not only on your birthday it's not only first you know if you buy enough stuff it's not an introductory thing. It's how you do business in fact I was in Las Vegas this week speaking to a group of casino owners and I made this point. I said look you guys are putting hundreds of millions of dollars a year on loyalty programs and loyalty programs of that type. You get the card and now you're plutonium level and you get an extra hash browns or whatever the hell it is that doesn't create any word of mouth at all. No it probably creates customer retention and that's a different issue and that's fine. But to think that this players Club card tiered experience program is going to create word of mouth that does it and the research shows that. So we believe that talk triggers have to be available to all. So give an example to answer your question before about a case study. One of my favorite examples in the book because it is perhaps the simplest is a restaurant in Sacramento California it's called Skip's kitchen. It's a very simple premise. It's a counter service restaurant. You walk to the front and you say I'd like to Patty belts and I'd like onion rings and a chocolate shake. And when your food is ready they bring the food your table. However there are talk trigger works like this before you pay cashcard what have you. They say Saul let's try something. Okay. What the counter person whips out a deck of cards from underneath the counter and fans them out face down in front of you and says pick a card. And you select a card and if you get a joker your entire meal is free whether you've ordered for yourself or 10 friends. Now Skip's kitchen has been in business for ten years. They have spent a grand total of zero dollars and zero cents on advertising in that entire businesses life. They were just named the 29th best hamburger restaurant in America by USA Today newspaper. There's a line to get in almost every day about three times a day three point five is the actual average three point five times a day somebody wins this joker game. And when they win they go bat shit crazy right. They're taken patty melt selfies and they're calling their mom and they're putting stuff on Instagram and Facebook live at a high school marching band shows up it's really quite spectacular. It's so powerful that in Sacramento despite the fact that they have a giant neon sign out front that says Skip's kitchen quite clearly in Sacramento. Most people call it that Joker restaurant. Now that's not a talk triggered that you only get if it's Thursday or only at lunch or only on your anniversary or only if you're it's every single customer gets a crack at it. And we make a whole distinction in the book about the delineation between a trigger which is an operational choice that happens every day and surprise and delight which is something that you do in one particular circumstance in order to create word of mouth in in a in a specific moment. That last however long it lasts. And I'm not suggesting that surprising delight is a bad idea or it doesn't work. It's great but it's not a repeatable word of mouth strategy in arms.


Saul Colt: [00:17:56] So it's interesting you mention the birthday thing or anniversary thing some companies you can really get yourself into a weird corner if that's your strategy. Because if all the same you missed the birthday they were like your level of expectation that you know it's transactional as opposed to you know like we said earlier lifestyle and you know it can actually work against you because for whatever reasons a you know your e-mail service is down or a million different reasons people can actually say Oh like you know I got to three years in a row I guess they don't like me anymore or something. That's right. When you do that the little breadcrumbs all the time and stuff and it's funny. You know another thing that I noticed in the book which I really you know connected to was you know I've been saying this forever. I'd rather do 20 small dollar you know fun interactions than have someone give me a hundred thousand dollars to do one crazy thing because one you know smaller amounts smaller budgets force you to be more creative there. I'd rather do a bunch of things because not everything is going to connect you. You mentioned Andy Sernovitz and you know I've known Andy for years. Meyer and respect him something he said to me really really early sort of on my career journey and he didn't say it to me directly he said like at a conference I was in attendance but we had become friendly. And it really stuck with me as you know the when when something word of mouth doesn't hit it just means nobody really heard about it. And you know that's I use that to pitch people all the time and say you know like this isn't going to blow up in your face. This isn't going to be you know the Pepsi. Kendall Jenner ad where you know the King's daughter is tweeting that you know this is sort of her family name and stuff like that. You know like little tiny things have such a lasting impression. So like I'll use you as an example. I've known you or known of you for probably nine years now. As far as I remember I think we've only met once in person and the reason I know that we've met in person and I'm not imagining it. I don't expect you to remember it because that could have been like eight or nine years ago. But on my desk I have your business card which is the bottle opener. And I've never actually used it as a bottle opener but it's just you know something that I didn't want to throw away because it has value or perceived value and it was so you know you're going to go to the lengths to do something different. I'm going to reward you at least you know in some strange way by not throwing it out put it on my desk I've got yeah I've got this crazy big desk that I work from and I've got tons of things on it that you know some people would look at is maybe trinkets or stuff but is there like all constant reminders to like you said be different stand out you know go that extra mile. And you know I'm sure I don't know if you still have the business cards I don't know if I do them.


Jay Baer: [00:20:53] All right. Every single day ten years now.


Jay Baer: [00:20:56] But that's so you know it's so clever and it's so great that you do stuff like that because people come up to me all the time all the time and say hey I got your business card just like this you know years ago and I still have this event. I was in Vegas this week. The lady who runs AV for the Las Vegas Convention Center is working the show comes up to me at soundcheck. This just happened yesterday and says Mr. Baer It's great to have you back. I still have your business card from five years ago and I was like whoa. I mean I she did not remember her from five years ago or from that convention center. But she's like immediately knew who I was knew that my business card was a metal bottle opener mentioned me that she still has it, man. This really works. I started writing about that and this whole talk triggers idea in 2011 and it took me you know multiple books in many years to be like Oh that is a book. So I kind of I don't know why it took me so long to piece it together but it did and.


Saul Colt: [00:21:56] Some noise in the background here we'll work through it. Do you think that there is going to be a time where you know a big brand has a job title that you know either has the word talk triggers in it or just word of mouth in it because it's still.


Jay Baer: [00:22:11] No I don't think so. I don't think so. I think it's still too. I think it's it's too fuzzy. What I do think will happen as a practical matter is CXO's will start to think more along these lines right your chief customer experience officers those kind of folks. CCXO I should say that those kind of folks who are in charge of CX will be like all right. It's not just about delivering a customer experience that is inoffensive. It's about delivering a customer experience. That's talkable and that can be that can be one job right. Right now all of those people and I do a lot of work in the CX community and really focus on how do we avoid mistakes how do we how do we make sure that if we are going to send somebody an email on their birthday they actually get it. How do we make sure that when they log into the app it recognizes their previous purchase history all that kind of stuff that that if you don't do it right feels like a burr under the saddle. There's a lot of focus on that but I hope that the next kind of wave of customer experience thinking is alright. We've spent a lot of time figuring out how to make CxG better. Now how can we make it talkable.


Saul Colt: [00:23:19] So just use the word the word is used in something inoffensive and inoffensive.


Jay Baer: [00:23:27] Yeah.


Saul Colt: [00:23:28] Do you think some people you know sort of they still equate word of mouth with shock and they equate words yes with being more different but being outrageous maybe just by crossing the line in them I think does a disservice to everybody because you know for me my brand is a little bold in some of the stunts they do or could be construed as you know whatever not offensive but somewhere close to offensive. But those are calculated decisions based on the brand personality. And and I wonder if some people just think that you have to offend and shock when no like you know just the example of your business card the example of the deck of cards at the restaurant it's not about shocking it's about literally getting somebody to turn to somebody next to them and say You'll never believe what I just say.


Jay Baer: [00:24:20] Not only that what we have discovered and or have data on them. But I certainly have plenty of anecdotes not only from cases but our own clients that in many cases when you take something that is massively perfunctory and you put a twist on that thing the impact can be greater than if you do the big bold gesture because people are so used to that one little thing being so boring and so insignificant. Business cards are a good example. There are trillions of business cards and ninety nine point nine percent of them are completely perfunctory and boring. So if you do something different it actually has greater abilities because you're taking something that is usually wallpaper and doing something with it. We talk about in the book The Case Study of the graduate hotel chain graphics hotels is about 28 locations. Now they're all in college towns in the US. Ann Arbor Michigan University Michigan is Athens Georgia University Georgia here in Bloomington Indiana Indiana University etc. and at each hotel all the the decor is all in on the university and it's nostalgia in its history. The colors of the school and famous athletes and objects that are evocative of the history of that institution etc. They want a lot of design award. It's a very thoughtful brand. But this concept of theming extends all the way to things that we would typically consider to be very very boring and perfunctory. So every hotel in the world other than really old timey ones that saw the metal key now have the plastic key cards right. But in every case the plastic keycard either a has the logo of the hotel or b if you're a loyalty member has like it says you're platinum or whatever I just you know just lame what the graduate does is all of the room keys for all their hotels are the student identification cards of famous graduates of that hotel. So the Lincoln Nebraska location the room key one of them is Gabrielle Union the actress who went to school at the University of Nebraska. People now collect these hotel room key cards like baseball cards. And they're trying to complete the whole set. This costs them like half a penny more per room key. But they've taken something that is incredibly boring and mundane and turned it into a talk. Trigger just by saying all right what do people find lame. How can we just put a tiny little twist on that.


Saul Colt: [00:26:45] Well that not only is it something that's boring and lame and they made a green. You know you travel more than I do but I'm on a plane every week you know doing a talk or project or client work. And I I just always forget to give back the room key and rolling them out at the airport because the US has no reason to keep them. But this you know like you mentioned this actually makes it a reason to. Like I said turn to the person next to you and say you'll never imagine what I just saw.


Jay Baer: [00:27:17] Well there's tons of social media about these cards to people take pictures of them there so you know obviously it's it's photo worthy and so you see it on Instagram and Facebook and Twitter all the time in fact one of the case studies we talk about in the book is The Athens Georgia location the room keys are Dominique Wilkins who's an NBA hall of fame. And Ernie Johnson who's the host of the NBA on TNT which is the most popular basketball related show and Sports Illustrated was in town doing a feature about something else. And they stayed at the graduate and then illustrated took a bunch of pictures and tweeted out the room. It's like you know you can't buy that kind to that kind of recommendation.


Saul Colt: [00:27:54] Couple more questions and give your day back but so you do a lot of speaking and you're all over the place. You know I think probably and this is my my own lazy math from following you on social media. Gotta do 200 talks a year or something crazy like that.


Jay Baer: [00:28:12] It feels like it feels like that it's I of 70 this year which is still a lot but not as many a some but.


Saul Colt: [00:28:18] But yeah I'm out there a bit because I do want to ask you about your speaking career. But again just to make this about me think I am in Keyvan on the topic of the book for a man. I am I do you know about half as many talks as you maybe about 25 or 30 this year. And you know one of the things that resonates. You know I talk about three things creative marketing. Word of mouth that's sort of one bucket talk about influencers and how kind of everyone's doing wrong. That's another buck at them and they talk about this thing called marketing a risk that you know sort of the early days of fresh books and how we went from 240000 users to over a million in 11 months. But you know when I talk about the word of mouth and the creative marketing the thing that resonates so much with people and you can always see the light bulbs going off and and I assume this is exactly why you wrote the book. But I'm just you know freezing in a different way. Whenever I talk about know like and trust and dad you know you know when you say that 90 percent of all decisions are influenced by you know someone else. And you know what. I forget the exact quote you used but it was something like I don't know what it did you know word of mouth. The stat I use is that you know sixty three I forget. I've got to slide it was from Keller fairy. You know those people. But when you talk to know like and trust and how you know I break it down very simple for people and say if if me standing on stage who you don't know and you know just you know I know of me through social or whatever if I tell you that I had this great meal at a restaurant last night and you should go probably a 50/50 chance you may or you may not go. But if a best friend tells you to go you know that goes up by about you know 80 or 90 percent. And you know this is so simple and so common sense and it's amazing that people still don't like tune into that. So when your time to talk triggers you know it's not only getting people to talk and tell their friends and some of them but it's also you know one of the ways that I build customer acquisition you know strategies for people is bring their friends bring their like minded people you know if you've got a product that you can't you know you don't have the money to target every single person but you can target her you know. Good example fresh books as a company have an 11 year relationship with them. I would always say you know it's like 2 percent of the population can use our product but 90 percent of the population talk about it. So through all of our talk triggers and all of our sort of activities were never about the product. It was about you know the benefits of the products and it was you know less features more benefits and you know some people would say that's fuzzy or whatever but you know I can't deny that that it work. I'm just bragging even of a question here. But why is it still like people ignore the most common sense and like why are people surprised when they hear of know like and trust when this should be ingrained in everybody by name.


Jay Baer: [00:31:32] It's one of the great mysteries of business in that once we put on our business hat and look at problems through a business prism we forget that we are all consumers first like we know how we buy stuff but yet we assume that once we're looking at it from the other side that that's not how people make decisions. I think it comes down to and Jonah Berger is talked about this a lot and he told us more about this when we interviewed him. Talk triggers. You know one of the big problems with with word of mouth is that you can't press a button and run a report. Right. It's you know it you have to do real work to determine the actual impact. And at some level it suffers from some of the same challenges that public relations does where you know it works but you're not exactly sure how without doing some some real research. Now we break down for people in the book How to do that research and how to measure and test the efficacy of talk triggers because we're trying to bridge that gap for people. But as I said at the outset it still feels like witchcraft and not everybody wants to be a witch.


Saul Colt: [00:32:39] So let's let's talk about use speaker for a few minutes. Sure. I still want to hear like one or two more case studies and that's how closes down as speakers so you know hall of fame speaker. You know when I think people who are on the road all the time everywhere I think of you got Stratton Mitch Joel you guys you know are everywhere and obviously it's earned and deserved and everything. How does somebody even start as a speaker nowadays because it seems like it's hyper competitive. Like you know I'm there grinding away and do my talks and I love speaking like I don't do drugs and drink. This is really like where I get my endorphin rush in and being on the stage and you know for 90 minutes people think I'm the smartest guy in the world. But you know there's two questions. How do you get started today. And is the bar like lowered a little bit. Because it's interesting I'm finding that you know in a lot of people who don't have the practical experience are able to study and research and just go in and give a compelling like talk. But I'd always rather hear from people who were in the trenches and actually doing it so you know they can talk about real world experiences as opposed to they read your book and created their own word of mouth presentation.


Jay Baer: [00:34:01] Yeah there's certainly a lot of that out there and that's one of the things that that we really hang our hat on convincing confront not just myself but the other seven or eight folks who who are in my organization who also speak you know we do a tremendous amount of first person research we did four separate research projects for talk triggers. I mean we spent a ton of time and a significant amount of money just on research for this book. Not to mention the fact that we actually do this kind of work so we're speaking out about it from a perspective of firsthand knowledge. So that is true that there are certainly a number of speakers out there and I think it's to us it's probably more obvious in the marketing speaker category but it's just as true if not more so in leadership and sales and. You know the great speaker truism is you hear something once and you say you know I heard from Jay bear. And the second time you mention it you say I've heard it said and the third time you don't say anything. Right. To claim it as your own and that happens a lot. And it can be frustrating when you know that people are are kind of speaking about the same things but they don't actually do that work they just talk about that work. But my philosophy has always been you know what the audience can tell the difference at some level. And and that at least allows me to to to not worry about it too much. But by the same token it is an artform that is full of information and there are people out there who are really really really good speakers and they are better at the art form part then than I am and maybe you as well. And that's okay too because they're bring into it something that maybe we don't have it kind of cuts both ways right. I mean it's sort of like it's like being a comedian right. You can't have the performance side and the material and the best comedians are those that have both and I think that's probably true for a lot of speakers too. They can can I combined some of those things and some speakers are stronger on what we've called the content and others are stronger on what they call in the business the platform skills. And I guess that I guess that in the end that's fair.


Saul Colt: [00:36:08] Ok. Let's wind this down. Give you your day back but give me like one or two more like amazing examples of textures.


Jay Baer: [00:36:18] And I'm going to give you. I'm going to give you one that's not in the book that I heard or heard about. After the book was put to bed and that's the thing about this topic right now that I'm out there speaking about it all the time people come up to me you know after a presentation and say hey have you heard about this one I don't know and they tell me to story. No that's amazing I wish I could rewrite the book right. So this one was in Seattle about a month ago. Interpenetration Seattle after the event guy comes at me. Jay love to talk. Have you heard about this talk trigram. I don't know I don't think so I don't have any Seattle examples. Well there's a there's a doctor here in town. He only does vasectomy surgeries. And his name is Dr. snip. I thought OK. That's awesome. And you said you have but that's not the trigger. I'm like No no no no. It gets better every patient on the way out the door is presented with an engraved silver pocketknife that says Dr. snip vasectomy surgeon. Now you can imagine saw that you're hanging with your fellows right. You're watching sports you're fishing you're playing golf whatever. You open a beer or trim off a piece of string. And guys like bro. That's a sweet knife were it. You get it like where did I get it. I got it from Dr. snip the vasectomies Herge and I mean that is a solid trigger. I like that. I like that one very much.


Saul Colt: [00:37:44] I thought you were going to say give him a bag of peas frozen. He's a man.


Jay Baer: [00:37:49] I'll tell you what. Fun fact probably you probably trim this part out. But I was one of the one percent with a complication when I had that surgery. So I had that bag for about a week for a procedure that's supposed to be like a two hour recovery. For me it was definitely not sorry to hear that I had Deko. So I got that going for me.


Saul Colt: [00:38:09] It's kind of a shame you know I mentioned earlier that you know I'm constantly pitching ideas to brands. And you know some good and some down all of my favorite ideas were the stuff that people laughed me out of the room and it just sort of reminded me I was on plane yesterday and the flight was delayed because of you know Hurricane Michael and I pitched. I won't say which airline. It's not fair to throw people under the bus just because they don't see the wisdom of my genius but I push an airline and said you know like you guys are downgrading all your services. You know it's it's it's becoming the greyhound of the sky. What if you made you know the the awful parts of it just a little bit better if a flight is delayed or you know or cancel whatever. Like everyone's angry getting angry or sitting in the gate entertain them in the gate. And I pitched them everything from you know like like do you like a wheel of fortune have someone roll out a wheel do all sorts of crazy things. Let let get stand up comedians do all sorts of crazy things and make that environment just so much more interesting and I still to this day think that that would be amazing and I like it a lot. Crazy opportunity for an airline to do something interesting as opposed to just you know like JetBlue in the early days of Twitter was considered so cutting edge just because they excuse me they announced that you know flight was cancel on Twitter or something or they responded to things. OK sir we always end the show with the introductions so tell people who you are where being in touch with you where they can buy the book. I can't recommend it enough. I really really enjoyed it. Thank you. Audible is our new sponsor of the podcast so write to record a whole you know get the get the download through audible because I really wouldn't say it if I didn't appreciate it because I I actually take like recommendations seriously. But please tell people who you are and where they can touch you.


Jay Baer: [00:40:04] Two of the things real quick. The book is available on Audible read by myself my co-author the brilliant Daniel Lemmon and I will also say that you can't write a book about word of mouth talk triggers without having to read the book. So two things are true. One the book itself has cover has a cover that features alpaca's. So if you are in a bookstore and you see a business book with alpaca's on the cover I'm almost sure that it's going to be talk triggers. Second you may not know the assault on the back of the book. It says these words and this is kind of our trigger for the project. Big words Satisfaction Guaranteed if you buy this book and don't like it. Go to talk trickers dot com and leave the author's note and they will buy you any other book of your choosing. And that's true. If you buy the book you don't like it will buy you whatever you want. You want a first edition bible. We'll track one down somewhere. We believe in the book and you have absolutely no risk. Speaking of talk triggers if you go to talk figures Scott com. There's a ton ton ton of free stuff there. There's all kinds of infographics there's research projects there's group book discussion guides there's a PowerPoint presentation so you can talk to your boss or your coworkers about these themes. There's literally dozens maybe hundreds of pages of free stuff at Trigger stop. So obviously we hope you buy the book but you can go to the site and get a bunch of stuff for free. Q My introduction my name is Jay Baer. I am the founder of convince and convert a boutique consultancy that works with the world's most iconic brands on customer acquisition and talk ability. The New York Times best selling author of six books a Hall of Fame keynote speaker and MC also an avid a tequila collector and a certified barbecue judge.


Saul Colt: [00:41:41] That's awesome. I don't expect too many people are going to take you up on your money back guarantee but it's very cool to throw it out there. Thank you so much for give me your time. I know this is a crazy time view but I really appreciate it.


Jay Baer: [00:41:55] It was a blast, lets do it again. And let's let's do it let's let's make it happen again. Was a really really fun one of my favorite conversations I've had in a long long time so I appreciate that.


[00:42:02] Thank you


saul colt